When Do I “give up” on medical school?
Introduction
I was speaking with a group of undergraduate pre-med students who asked me when I thought someone should “give up” on seeking admission into medical school. My first inclination was to say that if medical school and medicine is your “dream” you should never “give up”. I thought a bit about what might be behind the question and I thought it might make a good essay topic for my blogs.
“Should”
I have never been a person who dealt in “shoulds” in terms of what might be the best situation for anyone’s life and life pursuit. If you want something and if really desire something, then pursue that “something” and make sure that you are in the best possible situation to achieve your goal. Any realistic (and the emphasis here is on realistic) goal is achievable in taking small steps daily toward it. Certainly, you cannot possibly reach anything if you are not moving “toward” it.
Long-term
The pursuit of admission to medical school and medicine is a bit like having more than 100 pounds to lose. You have to be consistent with your work on a daily basis or you are not going to see results. This means that everything “counts” and you can’t afford to “slack” or you won’t reach your goals. You can’t “let up” or you will find yourself behind quickly. Your undergraduate work is an opportunity to set yourself up with solid and disciplined study skills that can take you into medical school and beyond. It is also an opportunity to learn how to learn and master coursework. Just as daily exercise and diet modification will lead you closer to losing that 100 pounds (ounces at a time), daily preparation/study and mastery of your coursework will lead you closer to your goal (one semester at a time). As you have probably heard, this is not a “sprint” but a “marathon” and like a marathon, you can’t just lace up your running shoes and expect to finish a 26.2 – mile race without some daily training and preparation. If you are not comfortable with long-term goal achievement, then use your undergraduate to obtain the characteristics that will make you comfortable with long-term goal achievement.
Overcoming difficulties
There are plenty of physicians out there who didn’t start off strong as an undergraduate. Perhaps they had some maturity problems or perhaps they just didn’t have the academic skills for the pre-med coursework but the important thing is that they kept their goals in mind. If something is not working for you in terms of getting your coursework mastered, then change it. You can decide at this very minute -even if you are on the verge of dismissal- that you are going to turn your academics around “by any means necessary”. The process of doing this “turn-around” can be a huge asset in terms of making you competitive for medical school but you have to be successful. Just thinking about getting your academics together (like dreaming about losing 100 pounds) won’t make it happen but taking some active steps toward changing your methods will get results.
Many students have gone from extremely low undergraduate performances to getting themselves competitive but the process is not easy or short. Again, it’s back to the daily and consistent work with constant checkpoints to make sure that you are keeping on track. Enlist the assistance of any study skills courses at your school; enlist the help of peer tutors; enlist the help of a good academic adviser. In short, get help from any resources that you can find. Often, your school’s counseling service can help you identify resources at your school that can help you. You have to take the first steps and be willing to make some changes and stay with the changes that you have made. You also have to be willing to let go of your “ego” if it is keeping you from achieving your goals. Either your study (and mastery methods) work for you or they don’t. Everything in medicine is about new experiences and incorporation of those new experiences into your knowledge base. You can begin this process as an undergraduate and make this process as familiar as a comfortable pair of shoes. Just remember, undergraduate “GPA damage control” is a long and expensive process. If you know this going in, then you can prepare yourself for the long haul. Again, medicine is not a sprint, it’s a long-term goal. If you find yourself in need of “damage control” take action immediately and not when you find yourself in a situation that is too deep to “dig out of”.
“Deal-breakers”
There are some things that are very, very difficult to overcome. I place things like academic dishonesty, felony convictions and substance abuse problems. Most medical schools, even if you are sitting there with a uGPA of 4.0 and an MCAT of 45, are not going to be very interested in you with these things in your background. If you have a substance abuse problem, get it taken care of long before you anticipate entry into medical school. There are excellent substance abuse programs out there and you can’t hide from your problems forever. Medical school on any pharmaceutical substance (other than pharmaceuticals prescribed by a physician within the guidelines of established medical practice) is expensive and heading for a crash either physically or legally. Neither of these are things that a prospective medical school would like to deal with. In short, take care of what you need to take care of and educate yourself so that you can handle life without drugs of any kind. If you “think” you have a problem with tobacco, alcohol, uppers, downers and any other illicit substances, then you have a “problem”. Get your “problems” solved as soon as they are identified.
Living in the “Real “World
You are going to read (and hear) stories out there about John or Jane X who got into Medical School A or B with a GPA of 2.5 and an MCAT or 20. Those John and Jane X’s are very, very unlikely to be real people. The average uGPA for medical school matriculants in 2007 was around 3.65 and the average MCAT was around 31. This means that the further from those average on the low side that you are, the lower your chances of admission. Admission to medical school with a uGPA of 2.5 is not impossible but it is improbable since the uGPA averages have been increasing every year. Get your uGPA as high as you can period. Get the highest MCAT score that you can period.
There are also folks out there who would believe that if you are an URM (Underrepresented Minority) in medicine, that you can get into medical school with drastically lower GPAs/MCAT. This is simply not the case because you have to have something in your application that shows you are capable of mastery of a challenging medical curriculum. If you are a URM and far below the uGPA/MCAT averages, then you likely don’t have a competitive application. Do what you have to do, to make yourself competitive and be prepared to take some years to get this done. I don’t care what your ethnicity/race is, you still have to be able to get through medical school if admitted. Admission is no guarantee that you will complete medical school. If you uGPA/MCAT is low, get yourself competitive by whatever means you have at your disposal.
But when do I “give up”?
You must answer this question for yourself. Preparation, application and matriculation in medical school is a very expensive process. How much time and money do you have? If you are a re-applicant, what you have you done to significantly improve your chances of admission? Just reapplying to medical school to “show them that you really, really want this” is not enough. You have to make some improvements on your application before you spend that money to reapply. Again, take a realistic look at what might have kept you out and get it improved.
If your application didn’t work this year, rework everything that you can rework before you submit for a future year. If you are reapplying to the same schools, you especially need to change and improve everything about your application that can be changed. Get fresh letters of recommendation, rewrite your personal statement (I don’t care how wonderful you believe it is, it didn’t work) and take more coursework if your uGPA is very low. Retake the MCAT if that is holding you back. (Beware though, retaking the MCAT and scoring lower can be a death blow). What ever you do, be sure to make it an improvement and not a change for the worse.
Looking at other career options
Some people believe that if they explore other career options such as physician assistant, nursing or physical therapy, that they are somehow giving up their dream. Nothing could be further from the truth. Explore other careers and have a realistic appraisal of how competitive you are for those careers. You may find that one of those careers better suits you in the first place from the standpoint of time of schooling to what your actual interests/motivation for medicine might be.
I am not advocating for anyone to seek to be a physician assistant, nurse or physical therapist because they “couldn’t get into medical school” but I am advocating that you should have a career back-up that you can love and pursue. You may not be competitive for physician assistant, nursing or physical therapist or you may not be interested in these great careers but you can’t make an honest decision without career exploration first. You may find again, that these careers are a great option for you and a better option than medicine.
Parting thoughts
Finally, be willing to let any of your advisers take a long and hard look at your competitiveness for medical school. If you don’t get in, get input from any and every excellent resource that you can find. Your goal is success on reapplication and you want to do everything that is within your grasp to ensure your success. Only you can tell when it’s time to move on to another career option and it’s YOUR life to live as you wish. Enlist any and all help that you can to get what you both need and want out of life.
The pursuit of becoming an excellent physician is a long goal. There will be people along the way who will tell you what you “can” and “cannot” accomplish. If you know yourself, and have faith in yourself, you know that you can accomplish anything that you want. You have to be willing to “run your own race” and take care of your own “needs”. There are as many routes into medical school as their are medical students.
If you should decide that you don’t want to pursue medicine, then that’s the best decision for you. Don’t let your life’s dream be anyone’s other than your own. It takes a fair about of courage to stand back, take a realistic appraisal of where you are and make the decision to move on to something else.
The other thing to consider is that getting into medical school does not have an age limit. Just because you decide not to continue with the pursuit next year does not mean that you can’t do something else and revisit medical school application three, four or even ten years down the line. As long as you have the desire, the stamina and are willing to earn competitive credentials, then give yourself a couple of years to decompress before you dive back into this process. If something doesn’t “click” for you in 2006, it might “click” in 2009 because you are a different person with a different perspective.
Hello, I am a 35 yr old with a 2.98 uGPA (US school) and hope to apply to medical school in a couple of years. There are no post-baccalaureate programs where I live (Puerto Rico) and don’t know of any SMP in my area. I would like to know if medical schools would accept any credits/grades that I can take as a non-matriculated student (to bring up GPA and meet the necessary science and math)? Should I just try for a second undergraduate degree in science? The school stated that I would receive both letter grade and credit and all coursework (non-matriculated) would appear on my transcripts. I basically would be starting from scratch since I don’t have the math and science, volunteer work, clinical/research work, etc. I hope to at least have my math and science and perhaps some undergraduate research work if possible. I also have 33credits in a master’s program (in US) that I never completed because a sibling died during the last semester, had to take time off and move back home, but could not get one of my professors to sign off on the withdrawal form and thus received a withdrawal fail. I also have two INC from an externship and another course. I dropped my graduate GPA below 3.00 (2.97 I think) and was dismissed from the program. I was offered the chance to appeal but I had to move back home/out of state and thus never was able to formally appeal. When I think back to all my schooling I realized that I was always interested in math and science and have had an interest in medicine for many years. Do you think it is even possible for me to become competitive at this point? Will they even consider me for admission based on my graduate school circumstances?
To KM:
You have several issues that I will attempt to address: I don’t understand what you mean by “non-matriculated” student. If you registered for coursework at an accredited university and your coursework was after you completed your bachelors degree but not at graduate level, those courses would generally be accepted and would be averaged with your previous undergraduate courses (allopathic application) or substituted (osteopathic applications). Under the allopathic application system, every course not taken within a graduate program but taken since awarding of a bachelors degree is considered post bacc work and counts toward your undergraduate GPA.
You need to find out your status with your graduate program. Since you are going to be required to list that coursework, you are going to need to know what’s on that transcript. Failures in graduate school are very difficult to overcome but you can look into petitioning your institution and providing appropriate documentation of your siblings death and your circumstances so that you can have a successful appeal. In many cases, you may be able to get that withdrawal taken care of. If not, it’s going to be very costly in terms of your application to any professional school medicine or otherwise. An overall graduate GPA of less than 3.0 is costly too.
If you elect to undertake a second bachelors degree, those grades would be averaged with your previous coursework which might get you above 3.0 but likely not by much because of the large number of hours you have attempted. Now, a second degree with outstanding coursework would be a positive in terms of later high achievement but you still face the “cumulative” uGPA problem in that 100 hours of A grades averaged with 100 hours of C grades only brings you to a 3.00. If you have failures, you have even more to overcome than just eliminating grades of C.
My advice would be to obtain unofficial transcripts from every institution of higher learning that you have attended post graduation from secondary school. Armed with this data, you should sit down and calculate your uGPA and science GPA along with your graduate GPA. You should also know exactly what is on your transcript in terms of notations since you didn’t’ complete your your graduate degree. Armed with that data, you can contact schools that interest you and tell them of your interest and status. They would be happy to let you know if they would consider you. Finally, you don’t have the luxury of a “do-over” here since you likely left your graduate degree not in good standing. In any event, you need to know where your are and what you can salvage.
By non-matriculated student I meant that I am not working towards a degree. I was accepted into a biology program but had too many problems with them accepting my credits. They would only accept those that specifically counted towards the major. I have about 184 undergraduate credits (7 yrs in school and change of majors). I am currently enrolled in a 4 yr university as a “special student” ,meaning not currently working towards a degree, which works on a trimester. Their classes for both the trimester and semester have the same hours and credits (45 lecture and 45 lab for 4 credit class). I hope to enroll in at least 14 courses or more with an avg of 56 credits. I actually may extend this by enrolling in a degree later on if I feel I need the degree or if medical schools will not consider me for admission. In regards to graduate school, the last year I attended was back in 2005. Part of the reason why I did not appeal and return is that the degree and licensing requirements had changed and I would have needed a yr or more and I could not afford the added coursework plus I had moved out of state. Do you think I should just re-apply on conditional status to the graduate program after I finish the undergraduate requirements (will enroll in more courses than necessary to raise gpa)? If I could not re-enroll in the graduate program does that mean that no medical school will consider me?
To KM:
Courses taken at an accredited college/university DO count towards medical school admission regardless of whether they were taken as a “degree-seeking” or “non-degree” student.Plenty of students return to university/college work because they need refreshers, more credits to offset earlier poor credits and other reasons that do not involve a degree. You should not have a problem with taking more classes because it appears that those classes will be counted a post baccalaureate and will increase your undergraduate GPA albeit very slowly because of your large number of hours completed.
A bigger and more threatening problem is your status with your graduate work. Again, you need to KNOW your status in terms of your graduate program. If you were dismissed for academic problems you need to know that this notation is on your record. If you were dismissed because you failed to return to the program (because of finances etc), you need to know this too. Plenty of people run out of tuition money and are not able to complete their degree but academic dismissal versus financial hardship are totally different. If you had academic problems (because of family matters etc), you need to attempt to get your former program to allow you to withdraw (provide documentation) so that your academic record remains intact. You cannot just “leave” that work out there especially if your leaving resulted in grades of failure for non-attendance/non-completion of work.
Your problems are more complicated than just whether or not a medical school would “consider” you for admission. With what you have described in your posts, you have likely put any future academic endeavors in jeopardy. With that said, you need to contact your previous institution and find out how you can rectify the situation so that in the future you may be credited for your past work, not be penalized for family matters that were beyond your control and so that you may pursue a meaningful career with the best possible outcome. Since you are only 34 years old, you have some maturity but you have a ton of life in front of you that you have yet to live. Please don’t just “throw up your hands” and let that past work follow you as a negative if that is truly not the case.
I would also recommend that you find a good academic counselor at any institution of higher learning (can be the one where you are taking your non-degree coursework) that would be willing to sit down and work with you to get your past academics under control. From your posts, you have illustrated how complicated one’s higher learning situations can become but you have paid tuition and deserve to have someone (in an official capacity) make sure that you get the best outcomes for your work. It appears from your posts that this has not happened.
In order for this to happen, you need unofficial transcripts and some quality time with a good counselor/adviser. You can’t go forward without getting your past under control as you have too many complications for me to address whether or not a medical school would “consider” you. If you mean by “consider”, will they read your application? The answer is yes. If you mean “will they admit you?” then that answer, at this stage with your academic problems, is likely going to be no. Can you get yourself to a place where you might be able to get back on track? Yes, but not with what you are doing at present because you have too many past problems that need to be taken care of before you keep paying tuition for classes that might not get you to a goal.
Are your problems unsolvable? Certainly not but you need the help of someone in an administrative capacity to make some inquiries and get some things rectified for you. This can be done and you can then move forward with the knowledge that you are taking recent coursework that you can do well in and that will enhance your academics and move to toward a career that will provide you with some satisfaction. I sincerely hope that you will do this.
The graduate school does have conditional readmission into the program (those that fall below required gpa 3.0) so there could be a chance I could explain and be re-admitted although limited to only 6 credits per semester and with a 300 hr externship I could finish in 1 yr. I have considered everything you mentioned and will follow your suggestions. If I were to be re-admitted and do complete the MA program would I still need to “clear” any dismissal from the record if there is one? It was only due to that one class I could not get a signature to withdraw without penalty and became WF which in turn dropped me to slightly below 3.00. I plan to do the undergraduate work where I live at and then in one year if accepted enter the MA program. If everything does go according to plan and I start the MA program in fall of 2013 and graduate in May 2014, do you think I may apply to medical school for fall 2014? I know there are a lot of what ifs but will try to do everything I can. BTW I am soon to be 36. Thank you for your suggestions and taking the time to answer my questions.
To KM:
Again, request an unofficial transcript from your graduate program so that you will KNOW what is on that transcript. Armed with that, you then can take steps to make sure that the transcript accurately reflects what has happened in your tenure in your graduate program. You likely need to seek the assistance of an academic counseling professional to make sure that your transcripts are accurate and that your are accurately credited with the work that you have completed. Please get this done no matter what else you are doing or will do in terms of this degree.
After you have settled your academic issues of your graduate degree (totally separate from your undergraduate problems), you will still have to deal with your academics of your undergraduate degree (the actual degree that medical school admissions will be based upon). While your graduate degree doesn’t “count” towards your undergraduate GPA, you will still be very low with a 2.9 in terms of application to medical school even if you complete your graduate degree. This is why you need to have every single piece of your undergraduate and graduate education defined and accurate with all liabilities removed. From there, you can then work on what you need to do to get yourself competitive for medical school admission. Be sure that everything you do, non-degree or graduate, is A-level work so that when you are in a position to apply, nothing done post bacc or graduate will be a liability. It might take much longer than Fall 2014 to get this done because you have so many hours to overcome. “Academic damage control” is not a rapid process thus you need to take your time and be patient as you have quite a bit in front of you. Good luck.
Hi, I think your post is excellent. I am 23 years old, and I am a CPA. However, I want to complete the requirements for medical school because I have figured that there is nothing else I want to do more than being a physician. Do you think that having a business background will be detrimental for the admission process?
To Gloria Mejia:
Any major is fine for medical school as long as you take your pre-med courses, do well in your academics and do well on the Medical College Admissions Test. Medical schools don’t care about your major.
Currently i have a gpa of 3.85 at my community college. Granted it cc. Am currently enrolled at university for biochem 2 and a physics and elective course. I am wondering what my chances are: i have volunteer hours over 10 0 at a hospital. Shadow experience over 50 hours. Am involved in exercise(would working out 4 days a week be extracurric?) and have my emt certification which i worked for a few months.
Provided i score at least a 30 on the mcat what are my chances?
Also. 1 quarter i only 2 classes but then i never missed a full load. I even took 4 some quarters.
To S:
Your chances depend on: the year in which you apply; the schools that you apply to; the competition at the schools that you apply to. With that much uncertainty, I can’t even attempt to gage your “chances” in terms of application. I can say that if you don’t apply, you chances are zero but you are on your way with the route you currently have. Keep your grades up and don’t take the Medical College Admissions Test (MCAT) lightly. The MCAT has been the “undoing” of many medical careers because folks get a false “sense of security” with the higher uGPAs and go into that test unprepared. The MCAT takes solid knowledge and solid preparation so that one may apply that knowledge. Everyone has desire to do well on the MCAT but the doing this with success may be elusive if you are not properly prepared. Make sure that this doesn’t happen to you. Good luck.
I was hoping to apply to uw Washington. University of Arizona, and university of Chicago Illinois.
In 2 years.
Thanks for the advice. And i really appreciate it. I know the MCAT will be extremely difficult. I plan on enrolling in a prep class and then studying before taking it.
Hello, I am really greatful for your help. My situation is that I graduated with a B.S in cellular molecular biology with a 2.8 GPA, I am finishing up a masththat I can continue to pursue my dream and get intofore I began my Masters I went to an advisor discussing my desire to get into medicine, she took a look at my grades and pretty much told me I didn’t have a shot and there was nothing I could do. I need advice on what to do to get into medical school with my low GPA, should I retake the classes I did poorly in at another college? or do I qualify for any programs that can help me. I really am looking for options that will help me get accepted into medical school. Thank you!!
sorry..just realized my computer did something strange when I went to submit my comment… let me clarify. I am finishing up my masters. Before I began my masters I spoke to an advisor about getting into med school, she basically wrote me off. As I am nearing completion of my masters I find myself still wanting to get into med school. I am looking for advice to get into medical school with my circumstances of a low GPA as an undergrad coming out with a masters in 2013. Thank you!!
To Cece:
Graduate degrees except for Special Masters Programs for credential enhancement (Georgetown’s Special Masters in Physiology,Rosalind Franklin’s special masters, University of Cincinnati, Medical College of Virginia certificate etc) do not enhance your chances of getting into medical school as graduate grades are considered outside of your undergraduate work. While your Masters can be a fall back or a source of income as you go through the application process, it’s likely going to be weighted about the same as an extracurricular activity.
If you can take post bacc work (repeat courses that your did poorly in) and get your uGPA up to around the 3.0 mark (or even apply to a SMP program with your masters), you might be able to get into medical school if you do an outstanding job in and SMP. Most SMPs are going to want you to have a uGPA around 3.0. Exceptions to this would be the GEMS program at Georgetown which is for underrepresented minority students (need an MCAT score for this). In any event, if you enter a special masters program (go to the American Association of Medical Colleges website and do a search for post bacc programs), you need to do outstanding work without question. Many of these programs will have you taking the same coursework as first year medical students but you will be held to a higher standard. With a 2.8 uGPA, the graduate degrees/certificates i.e.Special Masters for credential enhancement are going to be your best options and by no means a sure thing.
This is my first venture on this blog and I find it to be incredibly helpful. My question is this (please forgive me as I’m sure this has probably been answered elsewhere): I’ve already graduated with a BS from a UC school. My GPA is less than outstanding at 2.96 and MCAT of 34. It took me an incredibly long time to “find” medicine so to speak but now that I’m here, what are my options? I’ve spent my last year since graduating working as an office manager for a prestigious doctor in his solo rheumatology practice and I’m not sure where I go from here. If I’m not accepted into a formal post-bac program, do I now have zero opportunity to improve my GPA? Do I try to apply again to an undergrad program to re-take courses? I can’t imagine courses at a city or state college would be very helpful…what are your thoughts? Your response would be incredibly appreciated!!!!
To Jessica:
You can retake your coursework anywhere you can get courses that are equivalent to the ones you took in your undergraduate program. Those courses do not need to be inside of a formal postbacc. You might look into trying to enter a Special Masters Program for credentials enhancement (U of Cinci, Virginia Commonwealth University, Georgetown) but realize that these programs take people with at least 3.0 uGPA thus you need to retake a few hours to get youreelf over the 3.0 mark. Needless to say, if you enter one of these types of programs, you have to do extremely well. Good luck.
I was academically dismissed from a Masters program in Biomedical Sciences. I wanted to know what is your take on if this will be a huge downfall for my pursuit for for medicine. I know that I have to reapply to other masters programs again. I was just getting over the depression of failing out and am now trying my best to fix everything that ‘went wrong’. I still have an MCAT that can significantly be improved. Any advice or words would be appreciated. Thanks
To Lisa:
Much depends on your undergraduate grades and your MCAT in terms of how much this will hurt you. Graduate degrees are generally weighted as extracurriculars in the medical school admissions process but like any extracurricular, they can negatively affect you if your performance was not outstanding. If you apply with this academic dismissal on your record, you will need to be ready to explain why and how this happened. If you had extenuating family circumstances such as personal (or family emergency/illness) that couldn’t be avoided, then this likely will not be a “death-blow” to your application. If you just couldn’t perform academically (or lost interest in your graduate work), many schools may see this as a “red-flag” for admitting you into a very long and challenging medical school program. If you sought the Masters in Biomedical Sciences as a “credentials enhancer” for admission into medical school and entered a program that is well-known to medical schools, you may have a major uphill battle in terms of convincing an admissions committee to admit you. The bottom-line is that schools strive to admit people that can get through their curriculum and pass licensure board exams without difficulty. The best evidence that we have of students being able to do this is past academic performance. If you want to overcome a poor academic performance, you have to have some very high academic achievement after your failure. I always advise students who are interested in medical school, not to enter a masters- level graduate school program (as a means of trying to overcome a poor/mediocre undergraduate performance) unless they are passionate about research and intend to pursure a research oriented career within medicine. If you entered a Special Masters Program for credentials enhancement for medical school such as Georgetown, Rosalind Franklin or Bryn Mawr, then you are obligated to perform at a very high level in such a program as these are well known to admissions committees. To answer your question, yes, this is a significant “downfall” for medical school admission but how fatal this would be for you will depend on why and how this happened. This would be a task, should you elect to continue with your pursuit of medicine, that you need to approach objectively (difficult to do) and systematically as you need to figure out what and why this happned. Good luck.
thanks so much for the speedy response! Extremely helpful
Hi,
I am an undergraduate med student from a very prestigious college. I want medicine to be my profession and I am working very hard at it, but I am having trouble in my med related classes. How much effect does the academic institution a med school applicant is coming have on one’s chances? I think I know the answer to this, but could it even slightly help account for a lower uGPA? I know there are many many applicants that come from great schools with great uGPAs, but if I am just not as good in the sciences as say English, do I still “matter” to an admissions officer?
To Frankie:
The undergraduate institution matters far less than the grades that one achieves at said institution. Grade inflation is out there and generally more profound at the more “prestigeous” institutions which puts you at a bit of a disadvantage. Try to get your pre-med subject grades as high as possible. There just isn’t much room for error. You can’t decide that you are “just not ad good in the sciences” and hope to enter medicine. You have to find a way to master your subject matter.
Hello, well i have been reading your blog and finding both very interesting and at the same time very inspirational. I am currently on the third year of my undergrad and I consider that its been good so far. I have a fairly high GPA, 3.84. My non-science GPA is lower than my science GPA. I am very involved in my school and have demonstrated to be a leader. Im just starting to look into med school application and studying for my MCAT as well and im really scared about the what ifs. What if i dont get in? and the many others that have gone through my mind in the past couple months. What would you recommend to make myself a more stronger applicant? Thanks for all the great ideas. Keep up your blog.
To Henry Montilla:
The only absolute in the medical school application process is that “you have zero chance of accepance if you do not apply”. Outside of that, if you feel that medicine is your calling, you do everything within your power to put forth the best application that you can and see what happens. There are no guarantees for any applicant. You can paralyze yourself with fear or you can put together a Plan B and reapply if you don’t get in on your first try. No patient is going to ask you how many times you applied to medical school. Depending on the pool of applicants to the schools that you apply, you are going to be competitive or non-competitive but you can’t waste your time on “what if” as that gets you nothing.
Great article! I am currently a 3rd year undergraduate student and have done poorly so far. I have not attended most of my classes up until this point. This is due to some personal problems but I have those figured out now. I have realized my situation and understand that I could have done far better. Currently, I will not be able to complete my program at the end of 4th year because I have taken full course loads and usually dropped most of the courses before the drop deadline. A few questions if you could help me out please :
1. Does taking longer than 4 years hurt my chances at medical school admission at all?
2. Does re-taking courses hurt my chances?
3. My major is Biological Chemistry. Is this a good major to be applying to medical school with(BTW I am from Canada)? I know you can apply with any major but I just get this feeling that medical schools prefer biology students. I have no idea why but….
Thanks very much!
To Ali:
Taking less than a full load especially with poor results can be problematic. Medical school is a full load and then more. Admissions committees need to see evidence that you can handle the fast pace + volume by your performance in undergraduate studies thus you need to figure out how to complete your full load and get strong grades without exception. As for major, it generally doesn’t matter as long you have excellent scholarship in what ever you major in. There is no preference but many people wind up majoring in Biology because the pre-med pre req courses are readily applicable to that major. Major in anything that is of interest to you and that you can do very well in. Good luck!
Hi, i just came across your blog and found it very informative! I do have a few questions though, I am entering my senior year and i now have an uGPA of a 3.19 and have yet to take the MCAT. I have been told by many people that no matter how well I do on the MCAT it will still not substitute my low uGPA, is this true? I am also applying late in the cycle which decreases my chances of even getting an interview if by miracle im invited to one. What is the best path to take? A) still apply for this cycle B) put off the MCAT and try to walk out with a higher uGPA when I graduate but apply for a postbacc/SMP program. and if I cant afford an SMP, how do you exactly formulate your own postbacc program, do you simply just retake the classes you got a C or a B in? should I even consider going abroad like St. George’s med school in grenade? what can I do that will make up for this low uGPA? I have great EC’s and LOR’s and will have a great PS so what, in your opinion, should I do?
To Chantell M:
MCAT does not offset a poor uGPA. Late application is not optimal if you have a lower uGPA, as you likely NEED the earlier application. A uGPA of 3.19 is very, very low for application to medical school and even low for a post bacc masters progarm. Please see my answers to other questions as I have answered many of your questions. As for offshore medical schools, make sure that you know all of the aspects of attending these institutions especially financial information (financing options) and USMLE preparation/graduation rates/residency options.
Hi… Im a junior at my university and not so long ago I was in a early admissions medical program offered at my school. I loved my program and it gave me some awesome opportunities, but this past year 2010, was a really bad year with so much stuff going on in my life, i decided to drop the program and Ive also decided to graduate a year after my scheduled graduation and then apply to medical school.
I want to retake some courses and of course have more time to do better on the MCAT.
Is this going to be a problem to admissions committee of does all this look bad. I feel extremely lost at this point because I thought I knew where I was going in life, but know its a different path Im taking without the early admissions program.
Thank you
To Darla:
Don’t retake any courses that you received a grade of B or better in. Taking longer than 4 years to graduate isn’t much of a problem as long as your grades and MCAT score is competitive along with your LORs, PS and other things. Good luck.
Thank you
one quick question though what are LORs and PS?
To Darla:
LOR= letter of recommendation
PS= Personal Statement
Being a physician really is my only dream, however, I only realized this after completing my biology degree with a uGPA 3.11. I went to grad school for a year (gpa 3.55) before “voluntarily” withdrawing for academic dishonesty that will not be documented. I fully intend to disclose this academic dishonesty during applications, but is there even a shot for me with the assistance of an SMP (such as Rosalind Franklin and assuming good grades). This all happened nearly 5 years ago (trying to distance myself from the event) but I still can’t shake my passion.
To HTLMyDream:
Be very careful with the “academic dishonesty” disclosure. For most schools, it’s a “deal breaker”. If it’s not documented, then you should see if it needs to be disclosed. The best way to determine if you need to disclose this information is to see some legal counsel (someone who deals in educational matters) before you spend the money and energy on attempting to apply to medical school. If it turns out that your situation is like expungement of criminal charges, you do NOT need (or WANT) to disclose this information. Once you know your legal status in terms of your academic dishonesty, you can look at an SMP and continuing with your pursuit of medical school. Things like academic dishonesty, former criminal convictions can derail any chances for licensure which means that any medical degree would be practically useless. This is why you need to be very sure that any academic blemishes on your record do not mention dishonesty or irregularity. If indeed, nothing is there, don’t be the one to put it there for any reason. I am not telling you to lie but I am telling you not to disclose something that may not need to be disclosed. If you need to disclose this information (it’s in your academic record somewhere ), then have a good and honest explanation. If it’s not on your official transcript (an attorney needs to check this for you legally), then don’t put it there. Don’t lie on any application materials(especially if you are asked a direct question) but don’t tell things that do not need to be reported especially if they will mean not getting accepted. Good luck.
Hi,
I came across your blog while surfing the web. I am currently a 2nd semester 2nd year undergraduate student at a fairly competitive private university and am worried about my chances to medical school. Out of the 11 courses required, I have taken five and my GPA is a 2.8. My overall GPA is a 3.2. Should I give up hope of going to medical school from undergrad? Thanks for your response.
To CK:
Look at some of the answers to comments under “What do you do if you don’t get into medical school?”. The first thing that you know you have to do is get that GPA up. You have plenty of college in front of you but you need to figure out why you are not doing well and correct things. You need to do very well in the pre-med courses and then get very high grades in everything else. The college that you attend doesn’t matter much but your performance there DOES matter very much. With the average medical school matriculant uGPA being 3.65, you have some work to do to get those grades up and keep them up. The good thing is that you have some time to get this done. Good luck.
Hello, I found your blog to be very helpful and I have a couple of questions about getting into Medical School. I had two solid bad years of grades at my university (F’s). I was terribly depressed due to some things going on in my life and honestly, I just was unable to do anything. I finally got over it and now I’m doing much better in my classes (which I had to re-retake…) So my question to you is, what are my real chances of getting into Medical School? There is nothing else I have ever wanted to do so I want to know what can I do now to become a qualified applicant.
Thank you so much for your help!
To Help:
You need to get the highest grades possible in everything that you take. If you apply to osteopathic medical schools, anything that you retake will be replaced by your higher grade. If you apply to allopathic medical schools, your previous poor grades will be figured in with your retakes, which will make it difficult to get your uGPA into a competitive range. Two years of F’s is not going to be easy to overcome under the allopathic system but you can get yourself into a very competitive position under the osteopathic system with your retakes as long as they are excellent (no grade less than B+ and not too many grades less than A-). When you are done with most of your coursework, see where you are and go from there. Again, osteopathic is going to be your best option and it’s a good one.
I have a horrible GPA, I’m considering re-doing my undergrad. I feel that I am now ready to put in the focus and time that I should have put in when I did this the first time around. Will I just be wasting my time? I can’t find any other paths that lead to med school, and pretty much this is my last hope.
please help!
To Desperate:
Depending on how low your GPA, you may have to retake some of your undergraduate coursework. Once you get to the 3.0 mark, look into applying to a Special Masters Program such as the one at VCU, Rosalind Franklin or University of Cincinnati. While these programs are very difficult, you need to be prepared to put all of your effort into doing extremely well as this is going to be your best chance of getting the credentials enhancement that will get you into medical school. If you are sitting there with a 2.5, you need to get up the 3.0 mark. Depending on how much you have to retake, will largely determine how long the process will be for you.
On any of your retakes, you need to score grades of A without exception. This means that if you work full-time, don’t even think about attending school full-time. You need to start with one course, score well and build upon that foundation. It’s going to be a process but the process will be much shorter than attempting to do an entire degree from start to finish. Start with the AAMC postbacc list and get a list of programs that will enhance your credentials. Screen through them and decide on one that will be a good fit. Good luck.
I’m pretty much sitting on a 2.5 like you said. I am a little confused about the retaking. I thought that once you graduated you couldn’t substitute your grades with the re-takes. Or are you saying that just re-take them and the admissions will factor the retakes in?
To Desperate:
As long as you are taking courses at the undergraduate level, they will be considered post-bacc but will be factored in with your uGPA. Just be sure not to make the mistake of trying to enter graduate school(outside of a Special Masters Program) with the idea that it will make you more competitive for medical school though. If you need to re-do coursework, then make sure that it’s at the undergraduate level (if you have already graduated, then it will be post bacc but that fine too). Retakes (as long as you are not in a graduate program) will be factored in with your undergraduate coursework as well as any additional coursework at the undergraduate level.
Wow again!
You’d be a great writer for my blog too. Let me know if you’re interested…
I love the point you make about “shoulds”. As part of my PreMed coaching course I teach about don’t “should” on yourself. I’m a strong believer.
Hope you’re doing ok.
Cheers,
Dr Dan
Hello, i find your website very helpful and inspiring.I graduated from Undergrad in Dec 2008 and I am currently studying for the MCAT and my practice scores have been btwn a 30 and 32. My problem is that I have a very low uGPA. My science uGPA is a 2.4 and my overall is a 2.95.I really did not do well in undergrad due to some family issues, relocation problems, and also due to what I chose to major in. It was a very tough path. I applied to a summer enrichment program and I am still waiting to hear back from them. I will definitely do this program If i get in and also inn a special masters in physiology program at a very good school. This program will also provide me with the opportunity to do research with faculty members. I know that if I keep up with my study habits,my MCAT score will not be below a 30(by God’s grace). I am currently working fulltime as a Health Unit Coordinator at the hospital( this job involves less of patient contacts but it gives me ample time to focus on my MCAT studies and I love what I do at work) I volunteer at the hospital once a week, done some international volunteering, i have gained so many shadowing expereinces, and also held two strong leadership positions. I spoke to the admissions people at my top choice school and they told me that my GPA needs to be improved and if i score above a 30, my chances will be increased. My main QUESTION is when do you think will be the best time to apply?
1. should I apply whilst I am doing my grad school program, or wait until next year, after I have all my fall and spring grades?
2. Will it be a smart idea to apply this year as a grad school student if I score high on the mcats? Thanks and your response will be greatly appreciated? O MY GPA IS KILLING ME.
To Masalaki:
If you get into an SMP, then you need to do your best and make sure that no class work is poor. You should complete your SMP before you apply. Most medical schools are not going to be interested in you if you are in a graduate program in the first place. If this happens, you should be fine. If you don’t make it into your SMP, then you need to do some post bacc to raise your uGPA (as you have been told).
The MCAT is important and you need to be well-prepared. You don’t have the luxury of re-taking because your uGPA is poor. A poor uGPA + multiple retakes on the MCAT is not going to get you into medical school. Don’t take the MCAT until you are well-prepared and until you are almost ready to apply. If you score a 40 on the MCAT (it’s only one exam), your uGPA is still going to hurt your application. In short, a high MCAT does not offset a poor uGPA.
Glad to read about 40+ year olds in medical school. I am i my late 30′s and considering a career change to medical school. Does anyone know how difficult medical school is for older guys compared to younger ‘spring chicken’?
To Oldie,
You are going to be evaluated based on your competitiveness within the pool of applicants to the schools that you apply to. This doen’t have anything to do with age but has loads to do with what you put on that AMCAS/ACOMAS application. Make your application competitive and you have as good a shot as anyone.
This is very helpful!!! When you say make yourself competitive, what are some factors one can do as a pre-med to achieve a competitive status besides MCAT and GPA?
In addition to strong academics, you need to make yourself “stand-out” from the crowd on paper. This is usually done in your Personal Statement where you can write about the experiences that led you to choosing this career. Other things that make an applicant stand out are solid and meaningful volunteer experiences that show that you are interested in helping your fellow humans rather than trying to “go through the motions” or “impress” an admissions committee.
Do realize that if your academics are poor (or marginal), extracurricular activities will not offset them however, if your academics are strong, your extracurriculars can be the deciding factor in your favor. Make sure that your Personal Statement is well-written, clear and reflects your individuality. Needless to say, it should be positive and should not contain anything that is negative in any way. For example, if you received a “B” in Organic Chemistry, you don’t need to “explain” that grade in your PS. In short, don’t underestimate the power of a strong PS.
Thanks to whoever wrote this article. It is very informational, and not near as ambigious as other medical school info sites!
There are students in my medical class that are 40 and above. The thing that all students is dedication and drive. And if you have those traits, there is no age limit for medical school.